@MochaKoffee @triumph_forks I don't know what I expected from TLOU2 reviews, but it wasn't this.

@maolfunction @MochaKoffee I'm not convinced this game isn't just a bunch of cheap and edgy shock tricks to cover up for a nihilistic story that only manages to say "there's actually zero difference between good and bad things".

@maolfunction @MochaKoffee Naughty Dog deserves criticism for their shit game, but it's also incidentally coming out during a pretty bad time. I can't speak for anybody else, but the last thing I want right now is a game that screams EVERYTHING IS TERRIBLE. EVERYONE IS AWFUL. EXPECT NOTHING AND ONLY RECEIVE PAIN IN RETURN. THERE IS NO GOOD LEFT.

Like, can we not? I'm good okay, I'd rather fight a box of crayons in paper mario.

@triumph_forks @MochaKoffee I just don't really see how it's any different from The Walking Dead. This story is the exact same thing we get in any zombie setting. World goes to shit, people act like shit in order to survive, brutal violence against each other becomes the thing to survive. Cycles of revenge are bad, nobody wins.

Only this time it's mostly women getting brutalized in realistic bone crunching cutscenes. Congrats, you've introduced the appeal of Saw into video games.

@maolfunction @MochaKoffee Not only has "the world has gone to shit" thing it been done to death in other media but video games still do it worse.

At least the first game had a somewhat compelling dynamic between the two main characters. Everything I'm reading about this new game suggests this one just introduces new characters just for the sake of having them get beat up or killed without giving us a reason to care about them. You're just supposed to care because of how graphic the scenes are

@triumph_forks @maolfunction Video games have spent so long cribbing everything from film that the discussion has always landed on "well why *shouldn't* video games be able to depict horrendous acts of violence???", and never on the unique storytelling aspects of video games, and the responsibility that comes with them.

maybe it wasn't a good idea to build an entire industry on desensitizing young boys and young men to militarized violence

@MochaKoffee @triumph_forks We can't even begin to have a discussion about the potential impact games like this have when everything written about it is drenched in hyperbole.

@MochaKoffee @triumph_forks Doesn't help either that currently on places like Era, if you raise any issues about TLOU2, you're branded as alt-right for some bizarre reason because there can be no good faith criticism of this game now because the alt-right hate it for stupid reasons.

@maolfunction @triumph_forks lmao that's been going on for a long time

there are gay girls in the game, so obviously if you have criticisms of TLOU2, you must be a homophobic alt right russian bot who should be banned

@MochaKoffee @triumph_forks I just don't get it. I remember people criticized Spec Ops for trying to cynically judge players for dropping white phosphorus on soldiers (who were actually civilians, oh no) even though there was no option not to do that.

If TLOU2 tries the same thing, and by all accounts it does judging from reviews I've read, where you don't want to do something but are forced to because the game gives you no other option, what about that is praiseworthy?

@MochaKoffee @triumph_forks It's the same shtick as Bioshock. You've pulled the curtain back, we get it, violence is bad, but there's a point where the devs are responsible for forcing you to do shit you don't want to do.

Why are we praising devs forcing people to do reprehensible shit to teach a lesson we all already get because we go into these staged experiences already not wanting to do the thing we're about to be forced to do.

@maolfunction @triumph_forks If Neil and Friends were in the movie making business, how much attention would they get? What kind of critical reception would their films receive, given that they're basically The Greatest Hits versions of The Walking Dead and the Indiana Jones films?

That tells you a lot about where the gaming industry currently is.

@MochaKoffee @triumph_forks This game wants so badly to be treated like it's a movie and I'm just like, "Yeah, no, Come and See this is not."

@maolfunction @MochaKoffee It's purely a branding thing: Spec Ops the Line was a bizarre, gritty reboot of a tactical military shooter series everybody had forgotten about by the time it came out. It was also released when modern military shooter fatigue was kicking in, so it was an easy target to pick apart because nobody really cared about the game.

@maolfunction @MochaKoffee Meanwhile, TLoU is one of Naughty Dog's jewels - and ND is one of Sony's most important studios. ND's success is integral Sony's success in the west (especially now that the Playstation brand caters to the west now more than ever).

Sony funds ND so much to the point where they can't possibly fail lol

@maolfunction @triumph_forks that's a lot of words to say absolutely nothing

I just hate how absolutely nothing in this industry can apparently be gripping or worthy of praise if it's not, you know, ripping someone's spine out, or realistically maiming someone.

@MochaKoffee @triumph_forks Undertale explored player choice in a far more engaging, meaningful way without needing to be a trauma porn fest.

Don't get why reviewers can't just be honest that it's a story that we've seen before delivered in an ultra violent package. That can be memorable, sure, but quit calling it the best story in the history of human storytelling. It's ridiculous, a zombie story about revenge cycles is not something akin to Shakespeare.

@maolfunction @triumph_forks undertale is the maymay indie game so it doesn't count amongst REAL GAMES

i understand the hesitation to not use hyperbolic language, because making the game out to be anything less than THE GREATEST THING TO EVER BE MADE would invite all the shitty gamers to come attack you, and that's not something you want to deal with over the weekend, man

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